The interview which appears below, was originally published on South Asian Cinema in August 2001. ©The rights to this material are reserved to the owner. If you have any concerns or comments, please send an email to info@rahmaniac.com.
In little less than a decade, A.R. Rahman has changed the face of Indian film music. A Mani Ratnam find, Rahman’s first major work, Roja (1993), was a breakthrough. The unique blend of folk, classical, and natural sounds in the Choti si Aasha… number created a new idiom, becoming a Rahman hallmark. The freshness in Rahman compositions went unchallenged because music in popular Indian cinema was decadent at that point of time (late 80s and early 90s).
Mani Ratnam’s Bombay (1995) and Ram Gopal Varma’s Rangeela present two extremes of Rahman’s. While his Tu hi re… shows sensitivity for melody, Rangeela Re… demonstrated his capacity to deliver equally enthralling beats that could instantly hook teenagers. Rahman has come a long way since.
In the new millennium, A.R. Rahman has turned music into filmmakers’ top priority. It is no more just an element. It is the backbone, the filmmaker’s key to success. Back in the 1970s, music directors in South Asian Cinema were slotted. If it were an avant garde, ‘new wave’ film of Senegal or Nihalani, it would be Vanraj Bhatia. In a middle of the road Hrishikesh Mukherjee or Gulzar film, it would be Salil Chowdhury or R.D. Burman. But now, every important film having a stake, needs Rahman’s blessings. Be it a mainstream Mani Ratnam or Ram Gopal Varma, showman Subhash Ghai, or a discerning Shyam Benegal or controversial Deepa Mehta, they all form a beeline for Rahman’s Chennai residence.
For South Asians all over the globe, Rahman is a cult figure. The young love him because his blends are wild. His popular numbers have a magical mix of all kinds of sounds. For Rahman, there are no rules, no boundaries in music. You can do anything as long as it works. You can mix folk and classical and blend it with pure noise and cacophony. Rahman challenges the definition of music.
Is Rahman a phenomenon? “There is no denying that he is a huge talent and he has created a whole new sound in Indian cinema starting with Roja, which was one of his best works, down to Taal,” says Anupama Chopra, Indian film correspondent for India Today. Acclaimed filmmaker and lyricist Gulzar, who worked with Rahman in Dil Se, feels Rahman is fresh, original, and very, very spontaneous. “Rahman’s biggest contribution lies in the fact that he has changed the form of song.
In a typical song, the order that is followed is this: the mukhda comes first and is followed by the music, the antara and then comes the antara’s crossline which links up with the sthai. 98% of our songs are made in this format. But, his songs have become very close to the blank verse poem. That’s the beauty of his song. It runs like a poem,” says Gulzar. Rahman’s early training with Ilaiyaraja, South India’s renowned music composer, got him quick breaks as a keyboard player and he composed several jingles while he was very young.
A.R. Rahman’s critics, though small in number, brand him as a synthesizer. Pundit Vishwa Prakash, descendant of the outstanding music composer Khem Chandra Prakash of Mahal (1949) fame, does not accord Rahman a high place as a creative artist. He would at best call him a music producer or a sound producer rather than a music composer. “Rahman cannot work without a keyboard. He invites a musician or singer and asks them to play their instrument or sing. He records it and gets the soundbites. He then produces those sounds on his keyboard. 90% of his music is produced this way. So he is a keyboard, I would call him a keyboard,” says Prakash.
“For South Asians all over the globe, Rahman is a cult figure. The young love him because his blends are wild. His popular numbers have a magical mix of all kinds of sounds. For Rahman, there are no rules, no boundaries in music. You can do anything as long as it works,”
Gulzar finds such criticisms unfair and prejudiced. “It is not true that he uses the synthesizer only. He also uses live instruments and he dubs them according to his own sweet will. He works alone. He’s a one-man studio, recordist, composer, singer. He composes with all the instruments that are available to him. He dubs live music also but he does so in his own style. On the other hand don’t we have music directors who use live music but have become repetitive after a very short time,” retorts Gulzar.
Amarjit Chandan, a U.K. based Punjabi poet is disillusioned with the Indian Cinema scenario in general and considers ‘Rahman’s music plastic.’ “Only plastic people can appreciate his synthetic work. It tastes like instant coffee with a lot of saccharine and cream. At the moment, there is a big vacuum – there is no good musician, no lyricist (barring Gulzar) and not even good Singers,” bemoans Chandan.
Many feel Rahman is becoming repetitive. Anupama Chopra agrees. “Yes, in Takshak and 1, 2 Ka 4, it’s not AR. Rahman working at his peak level. It’s not the kind of stuff he created with Mani Ratnam or with Ghai. But, what you produce also depends on the director you are working with and how much he draws out of you and how much he makes you work. The same goes with any other composer.
What Anu Malik did with J.P. Dutta in Refugee is not what he would do with somebody not that musically inclined,” she explains. Vishwa Prakash also argues that AR. Rahman’s music will not endure. To illustrate his point, he says: “See, Bombay’s music came and disappeared. His is a temporary music which sounds good. It comes, people like it and after a while, it vanishes. Rahman is a decorator. He picks flowers from different gardens. None of them are his own. What he presents is simply a bouquet made of flowers picked from other people’s gardens,” sums up Prakash.
AR. Rahman is unaffected by what his critics might say. His compositions in Lagaan have raised a lot of expectations. At present, he is based in London busy producing Bombay Dreams with Andrew Lloyd Webber and Shekhar Kapur. The unassuming and soft-spoken Rahman always tends to underplay his projects. If it’s a success, he would simply say: “Alhamdu lillah” (Thanks be to God!).
For him, success is not a worry. It is an offering to his Creator. According to Shyam Benegal, the secret of Rahman’s magic lies in ‘the depth of his compositions and his having a perfect feel of the pulse of the younger generation. That makes failure difficult for him.” At 35, Rahman’s achievements are incredible. 22 — Lalit Mohan Joshi, Editor, South Asian Cinema, met A.R. Rahman at his central London flat and spoke at length on various issues that involve his career and personal life.
Last time when we met five years back, you said it was time Indian music went international. Do you think that time has now arrived?
I wouldn’t say it has gone international, it’s in the process of doing so. We’ve got the makings for it. I think one film has got to crack in. Recently, I saw this film Crouching Tiger. It is completely based on tradition but it has all the Hollywood people to do all the fights and stunts which is amazing. It takes them a bit forward. In India, we tend to get limited by the audience. It’s a kind of escapism.
Do you think something might eventually happen?
Yes, you never know. Suddenly some fellow might crop up. I think we have a lot of potential.
What is the show you are doing here?
As you said, there is a buzz of Indian things all over the world. I think it’s the right time for something from our country to be in the mainstream. It is a great idea and is slowly and steadily coming up well by the grace of God. Hopefully, it should be out by next March.
Who is sponsoring it?
It is sponsored by the group owned by Andrew Lloyd Weber. They wanted this mainstream Bollywood cinema musical.
What shape is it going to take?
It is a musical. It will have more than 10 songs, a story, and an Asian cast. It will all be sung live, hopefully.
Will you be on the stage?
I won’t be on the stage. I’ll compose the music. It will be interpreted by the cast and musicians. They’ll be singing the songs. Mostly it will be in English mixed with maybe Hindi stuff.
Any dates fixed yet?
No, everything is being formed.
What’s the experience like?
First of all, I feel honored to be picked by Andrew Lloyd Weber. It’s also good to be working with Shekhar Kapur who is internationally known. He suggested the lyric writer who has written for Bond films like Goldfinger. He has got his own tastes. What he likes is Indian but not very Indian. He likes crossover kind of Indian music. The main intention is to create something not only for Asians but also for the west.
Zubeidaa is your latest film. How do you look back on it?
It was a kind of a challenge because it needed to be period but had to be made in a way that people would relate to it. Though all of us like 50s and 60s music, there was a question mark as to whether it would be accepted if we did music like that now. It was important to give a kind of finish that people would accept. I think Mr. Benegal picked up the right tunes. He had a vision about the music so it was easy for me.
How do you deliver to a filmmaker?
Every director picks the tune. I give them 4 or 5 alternatives from which they can select. They then ask me if the choice was right and if I differ from them, I would give them my preference. That’s how I work. In this film, Zubeidaa we were mostly in agreement about the pick.
Can you illustrate your point?
Let me take Zubeidaa‘s ‘Kho gaye hain, so gaye hain’. I did quite a lot of tunes and this one seemed very different. Mr. Benegal said he had not heard it before. He felt it was a very new kind of thing and yet sounded period-like, symphonic, and full of grandeur. So, we agreed on it and I started working on it. I felt it would give it a nice touch if Lataji sang the song. Unfortunately, we recorded the song too slow. When I saw the film with the song, I realized it was too slow and was dragging the film. So, I sped it up by 30% on the computer. Lataji didn’t have to sing again. Then, it needed more backing and orchestration which is an amazing thing that can be done through technology. If you feel like improving something, you can.
What about the very lively number – ‘Rangili ho sajili ho’?
If you look at the 50s and at world music, there was music like that in the world though maybe not in India. So, it is a mix. It comes up with something that you might have done were you a composer of the 50s and were picking up something international in a film. So you have to get into a mind frame where you go back to the 50s and think what you might have done. I guess Mr. Benegal liked it because he insisted on something gypsy-like from the very beginning.
Would you agree that some of the music of the 50s was quite western?
We think today’s music is modern music. In every decade there was modern music. If you look even at Tamil films of the 60s for example, there was a lot of jazz in it, which is amazing. Every decade had a parallel western influence because of the British influence maybe. Where did violins come from? Various symphonic touches had been in our films also but had dithered and perhaps become very thin. They had perhaps got lost in complexities and hypocrisy. In Zubeidaa, after examining the music of the 60s, we tried our best to retain the soul of the film and keep the authenticity of the music.
What do you think about Benegal as a filmmaker?
For your information, I had never seen a Benegal film before Zubeidaa but I had met him earlier when I received my first National Award in ’92. I knew he was a very respected filmmaker. Zubeidaa is the first Benegal film that I’ve seen. In a way, it’s good because it rejuvenates both our energies. Had I seen his previous films, I might have concluded that he liked this or that particular kind of music. But I was influenced just by my first and second meetings. We then went outside Madras to compose for Zubeidaa and went by his inspiration of the story rather than his previous works.
You’ve worked with many leading filmmakers. On what basis do you decide to work or not with someone?
Luckily, my first film was a hit and it set a standard for me. I couldn’t go back to what other people had done. I had to stick to my own thing and go beyond – futuristic sound, good melody, fine poetry, and such things. So, most of the people who heard that, got an impression of my kind of music. They did not come and suggest to me to do what some director of the 60s or 70s had done.
Instead, they just came, explained the situation and character, and asked me to do a song. For me, it was just a matter of working hard and getting a kind of sound or tune that would inspire them to move the film forward. That’s how, when I was doing the second film, I met Shekhar Kapoor and Ram Gopal Varma. All these people came through Mani Ratnam. They were friends of Mani. They’d come in when I was doing songs for him and say they liked this or that of my music. That’s how most of our relationship developed.
What about giving music for Deepa Mehta’s ‘Fire’?
I mostly stick to films that have good themes. Through Mani, I got a call from Meera Nair who was doing Kamasutra then. I wasn’t sure about accepting the offer because people in the west associate you with a particular film. Now, people here associate me with Roja. If the west associated me with Kamasutra, all soft porn kind of films might come to me. I did not do the music for Kamasutra.
As for Deepa Mehta, she faxed me and some people said I shouldn’t work for her. Daily there were faxes from her and from her producer asking me to do the film. I said I wouldn’t. Then I saw the film and said I wouldn’t do it. I asked for three days. She came down from Toronto to Madras and I told her I wouldn’t accept the offer because I felt it was immoral.
Why?
The lesbianism and all that. Three days later my driver was sleeping at my house. He used to work for me and never went home. Suddenly, the film acted upon me on a human level. I questioned why he was staying in my house when he had a wife and a family in his own home. I felt he should go home and be with his wife and spend time with her and let out his emotions rather than stay at my house working hard for me. This struck me as a human being.
The film made me feel that each person ought to be given the chance to live naturally. The film seemed to say that when people are pushed to the extreme, they become immoral and rebellious. It’s not about lesbianism or anything, it’s a question of a person being pushed to a limit – it’s about hypocrisy, it’s about chauvinism. So I said I might do the film but I wasn’t sure. Finally, she used most of my music from Bombay and I just did one or two themes for Fire.
What about ‘Earth’?
Fire was quite well received and internationally I wanted to see what the scene was like. I did not want to do a film with an unknown director. Earth was a good film. I felt it had a good theme though I don’t know how far it went. You’re doing bubblegum movies but you also want to do real serious stuff – like themes. It lets you grow and in fact, that is what led me to Zubeidaa. I have gained an understanding. Zubeidaa‘s success has made it mainstream and I have understood that people can accept good films. Otherwise, I might have felt inclined to think that I would not work in a film that might not be seen by everybody.
How do you conceive a song before you compose it?
Everything is a vision. If you take the vision of a song, when you close your eyes, you should see the whole place. You should feel transported to a place. You should feel transformed into the energy of a song. Suppose it’s a romantic song, if it’s a divine love, you should see the supernatural. It is also determined by the script, what it demands, and how the whole team can take it forward.
You appear to have quite a rich musical background. Would you like to speak about your father?
My father, R.K. Sekhar, was a very hard-working man. He worked in about seven places in a day. He came from a very middle-class family and mainly worked in Malayalam movies. In those days, music directors did nothing apart from making tunes and an assistant would take care of background scores and interludes. My father was doing that and finally did his own movies. I think when his career was about to take off as a composer, he died. His movie was released and he died the same day.
How old was he?
He was 42. He was very young, and I think I was 9 and was studying in the fourth standard. I didn’t realize it at that time because he was sick for almost 4 years in various hospitals, and my childhood was spent mostly in these hospitals.
What was wrong with him?
It was undiagnosed. They said it was cancer, then they said he had been poisoned by some enemy of his. It was a very mysterious kind of thing that brought me to spiritualism and to Sufism later on in my life.
Your father was a Hindu and you were born a Hindu. What made you turn to Islam?
It was a Sufi healer who was treating my father and who almost told me about my future. He said I would be in Islam later and would become a big man. When my father was getting healed there, my mother saw many visions there that later on brought the whole family under the guidance of Sufis.
What was his name?
He was called Karimullah. When I built my first studio, he laid the foundation stone and did the dua (prayers) for us.
Was he a famous person?
No, not very well known but a very nice and honest person who is not alive now. Our whole family was influenced by him. We could see light only through him and we experienced a good feeling. When I did my first film Roja, I changed my name to A.R. Rahman (Allah Rakha Rahman).
What was your name before that?
My name was Dilip Kumar.
Is it true that you are very strict in saying your prayers 5 times a day despite your very busy schedule?
Yes, because in music you have to have concentration and you cannot be insecure and feel worried about whether it’s going to be a hit or not. Will it be accepted or not and so on. Finally, I decided, okay, I’m telling just one person, I’m not going to tell the whole world what I’m doing. I’m telling You, I’m offering You my prayers. This is the path I’m following. This is the work I’m doing. If You wish, make it a success, it’s in You. When you go about this way, you are not insecure about things like: Will this be a hit? Will it be sustained or will it run out? Faith cancels out all doubts and worries.
Would you call yourself superstitious?
Once you believe in God, you come out of superstition because every little movement is controlled by God. I feel it is He who controls every part of my body and determines whether it works or stops working. He is everywhere.
We are told that you stop in the midst of a recording in order to follow your strict prayer routine? Does it not place a strain and interfere with your work?
In fact, people like it. They say: ‘Hey! Go and then return. It’s your prayer time.’ You see, you may work hard for 10 days but can be unfocused. But, if for 10 minutes you are focused, it’s 10 days’ work, done in 10 minutes. It’s a kind of cycle. If you lose that cycle, you feel out of place.
You have done your own version of Vande Mataram? Was it because you have a strong sense of nationalism?
When I was working for my schoolmate Bharat Bala in the early 90s, we were doing commercial stuff. We got bored of it all and talked about doing something different. Then we left the topic and I became a music composer and he kept doing more commercial work. Later, we met after 5 years and picked up the idea we had talked of earlier.
I felt I had done enough of films for the time being and wanted to give people something which they were not getting but were craving for. When you look at our kids, you don’t want them to sing some chika buka rail or some such thing. We wanted something which we could contemporize. Sharai’s father had been a freedom fighter so he came up with the idea of Vande Mataram which I liked very much. We went ahead. The rest is history!
Did you have any particular target audience in view when you made Vande Mataram?
Vande Mataram is dedicated to the youth of India. We wanted to give them something which was both contemporary and traditional with which they could relate. Most of them were listening to mainstream things. We wanted to see if they would listen to our music if we put our national theme into a mainstream form. People liked it and even the form of music that evolved from it, led to the creation of a similar album.
What is your own perception of nationalism?
I think we need to concentrate more on unity. Sometimes people get carried away. I feel each of us should concentrate on progress as a citizen. That’s enough for the nation. Each person should be like a brother to the other. I think eventually there will be unity and we will move forward in the world.
How did you find working with Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan Sahib?
I got introduced to his music in ’92 when one of my friends played the track of Masi Masi for me. It sounded so traditional and yet so modern. Slowly I started listening to more of his music and realized that for music you don’t need a voice, you need emotion. His voice was like a rock singer. He had sung the most sensuous, most romantic, and most spiritual songs I’d ever heard.
I met him for the first time in ’96 with Shekhar Kapoor. He was a very nice person. I said I wanted to learn from him and he taught me one of his qawwalis. The second meeting was in New York when my friend Bharat Bala and I met at Sony. His concert was in Radio City. He suggested that we do a song for the 50th anniversary of the independence of India and Pakistan. So, it was almost like the culmination of all these thoughts that made me work. I think it was the last song he sang with me. It was a great honor for me!
Your music shows understanding of Indian and western music? Where did this happen?
Everything happened simultaneously. I had to work and also wanted to go deep into music. So, I was learning and earning. An examiner used to come from England to Madras (now Chennai). I did some grades of Trinity College of Music. Still, I wasn’t satisfied and read and learned about classical music. Among my teachers was Jacob John who now lives in England. I also learned from Dhanraj and other great masters. There are so many gurus. Every song you like becomes a guru and you learn from it.
How do you respond to the view that you are a mere synthesizer?
If you like something, it’s better not to analyze it. Once you start going behind a thing and start searching where it comes from, your quest never ends. Suppose I like water, I don’t have to analyze that it’s made up of hydrogen and water and this is the percentage of hydrogen and this is the percentage of oxygen! It’s my thirst, I need a drink and I like water. It’s pure and it gives me health. So, as long as it’s healthy and good music it doesn’t need to be said that this is done with a computer and then mixed with acoustic orchestra.
Certain kind of people might like to analyze and study things for a different reason. That’s a different matter. But when you just listen to music you don’t need to analyze it. I’ve been lucky to work with good directors. I have also worked with people whom I’ve not had positive vibes and then there were bad songs because you have nowhere to go. When you get a bad idea of a song, you have to live with it. You are in the midst of a process – you can’t escape by saying you don’t want to do the film or song. At present, I’m at a stage I can do decent music because people are expecting something decent. Things work out better now.
Where does your influence of folk music come from?
One very good quality about folk is that in every person there’s a folk musician hidden inside. You have to bring it outside. When you listen to world music and you listen and study Indian folk, you find it so simple and so much from the heart. It immediately touches you. You don’t need to use too many notes and too many harmonies to touch a person. You just need a simple line with as simple thought to touch a person.
How do you determine to sing or not sing your songs?
Sometimes the director might say that he wants me to sing. I might disagree for my voice may not suit a particular actor say Shah Rukh Khan or Aamir. But if they say that my voice is needed to create just an emotion, I might agree. There are many factors to take into account. Mostly, I don’t think my voice would match the voice of any heroes. My voice has got a bit of upper register kind of range. For Dil Se, for example, I said I’d do the track and then get someone else for the rest. But once we did the track, Mani [Ratnam] said he wanted it.
What’s special about Lagaan?
Hmm, It’s rather difficult to comment. It’s again folk with western classical and Indian classical. There’s a lot of mixes in it. Again, it’s quite an interesting story.
Do you accept you are a phenomenon?
I don’t know (laughs). Maybe after another 20 years when you look at my music, you’ll be able to say if I am one or not.
What’s the secret of your success?
God is great. I think my prayers have been accepted so far.
